taz: Ms. Heßler, have you already been annoyed with someone today?
Martina Hessler: Not today, but yesterday. I was in Berlin, and because of that Slippery sidewalks I ran on the very edge of the unicy bike path, opposite the direction of travel. A cargo cyclist came towards me and headed very specifically towards meeven though the street was completely car-free, so I had to hop onto the slippery sidewalk. I found that very rude – but he was probably annoyed with me. A robot would be taught not to scare pedestrians, even if they are on the bike path.
taz: And about a machine?
Hessler: Yes, about the broken elevator because I had to carry my suitcase to the fourth floor; about the emails that kept coming back even though the address was correct; via an internet form that crashed. I now keep a “diary of non-functioning” in which I record all of these small, usually not very significant disturbances because I am curious to see how many things don’t work on a daily basis – which one often doesn’t even consciously notice and immediately forgets.
taz: You have also written a highly acclaimed book about the “fallibility of people and technology” – is that one topic or is it two?
Hessler: It’s a topic because the two are so closely related. For two reasons. On the one hand, for over 200 years people have been compared to machines in a way that makes them look bad, flawed. We hear so often that machines can do everything better than people. On the other hand, human and machine errors work together.
taz: How so?
Hessler: Human errors, for example in the operation of machines, lead to malfunctions and disruptions. However, we are currently also seeing how AI amplifies human “errors”, for example by making personnel decisions Prejudices take over and discriminate against people. We are also facing a new situation: humans cannot assess the errors – hallucinations – of the AI. Is what the AI claims true or not?
taz: How has our relationship to our own inadequacy changed? And what does that have to do with her? industrialization to do?
Hessler: Making mistakes is part of being human. Historically, however, what was described as an error and how people tried to avoid errors have changed. By since the beginning of the 19th century the machine became the measure of human performance and human behavior, a new “technological defectiveness” of people emerged.
Im Interview: Martina Heßler
Born in 1968, historian, has been researching the history of human-machine relationships, errors and technological emotions for over 20 years. From 2006 to 2010 she was professor of cultural and technological history at the Offenbach University of Design, then until 2019 she was professor of modern social, economic and technological history at the Helmut Schmidt University in Hamburg. Since 2019 Professor of the History of Technology at TU Darmstadt.
Her book “Sisyphus in the Machine Room. On the Fallibility of Man and Machine” (CH Beck, Munich 2025. 297 pages, 32 euros; e-book 24.99 euros) was nominated for the German Non-Fiction Prize and the Bavarian Book Prize last year.
taz: What did it look like?
Hessler: The humans were described as flawed because they did not meet the machine’s standards. In the Middle Ages, it didn’t bother anyone if products weren’t standardized and weren’t always the same. With machine work in the factory, expectations changed. People have become disruptive factors who cannot work precisely and regularly in the same way as machines.
taz: Is it original sin if we bump into each other when parking? And doesn’t striving for perfection mean arrogating to something superhuman? So how much religion is involved in our ideas about the flawed human being?
Hessler: So when we bump into something while parking, it’s because we’re sitting in a vehicle whose boundaries and outlines we can’t fully see, which is why we occasionally bump into something. The car has often been described as an extension of the human body, but this extension also means that it brings with it new limits and flaws. That’s why we get yes Assistance systemswho are supposed to pick up the slack.
taz: And religion?
Hessler: In the Christian faith, people found themselves in the dilemma of being in God’s image without ever being able to be as perfect as God. In highly technological, modern societies, people rarely compare themselves with God, but constantly compare themselves with machines. You could say that the machine has taken on the role of the perfect beingby which people have to measure themselves. You can also often find quotes, spanning 200 years, that admire the “infallibility” or “omniscience” and “perfection” of the machine.
“Experts in non-functioning? A history of technological errors”: Mon, February 9, 8 p.m., Celle Higher Regional Court
taz: Technical superiority, even perfection, is claimed more loudly than ever today – in connection with the so-called artificial intelligence. What does that connect? what is believed in Silicon Valleywith the 200 year old ideas of a Manchester capitalist?
Hessler: I see less a return than the continuity of a machine belief that has historically taken on different varieties. For a good 200 years, the idea has existed that machines are perfect and can do many things or even everything better than humans. This goes hand in hand with the promise that the world will become a better place if we delegate as much as possible to machines. Despite all the obvious and obvious economic interests, I think that many people, especially in Silicon Valleyare deeply convinced that technology makes the world better, whatever “better” means.
taz: The tech company Google had “Don’t be evil” in its “code of conduct” until 2018. The good or better appears in a different way.
Hessler: Although we as a society have a much more differentiated discourse about the potential and problems of technology, people often believe in the promise of machines too unreflectively. But if Elon Musk If you think we all need a chip in our heads to keep up with AI, I wonder if that would really be a better world.