Activist on district struggles: “I firmly believe that we can appropriate spaces”

taz: Mr Warnke, you dedicate your book to everyone “who permeates our cities every day”. How do you do that?

Thies Warnke: There are no instructions. It’s more about an attitude. An attitude towards neighborliness. We don’t want to create a plan with the book, it is intended more as inspiration, as a workbook. The struggles for the right to the city are very contextual, but they make a difference in everyday life. They make our cities more socially resilient.

taz: Ms. Zander, an example in the book is the “Mikropol” in Hamburg. What kind of place is this?

Zander: The Mikropol was founded in 2017 after the loss of a district center in Rothenburgsort. Back then, we sat down on the market square with the furniture from the district center, without a roof over our heads. To say: we need places where people can meet. We created a situation that rebuilt the district center in public space and thereby made it negotiable. Then at some point we came across an empty toilet block on a traffic islandwhich we then rebuilt with the help of funding.

taz: In the text “Be gentle” at the end write that public toilets are paradigmatic of the crisis of public space. Why?

Zander: Previously, public toilets were managed by the district office. In 2017, the systems were handed over to the city cleaning department. The toilet house in Rothenburgsort was rated as “unusable” at the time because it could not be operated and because there was no interest in operating public toilets in a district like Rothenburgsort. That’s why we even had the opportunity. Most public toilets today are operated as thoroughly rationalized systems with washable stainless steel surfaces. Personnel-managed systems are giving way to automatic doors.

taz: The Mikropol is pretty successful, right?

Zander: The main success lies in the fact that the micropole changes everyday life in the district. A new city center is currently being planned, with a significantly larger infrastructure. That’s what we’re going to do. And we received the District Culture Prize in 2023 for our work. The jury’s statement stated that it is important that such places are fought for.

taz: And how do you do that?

Zander: We’re building on something, maybe rewriting these fights a little bit. We are not a former theater that is being occupied, but a 50 square meter room on a traffic island. The rooms are becoming smaller, but they can develop a radiance and thereby create new spaces, such as the new district center.

taz: In the book there is an article about a McDonald’s branch in Marseille that was occupied and continued to operate in a self-organized manner. Is it impossible in Germany to appropriate spaces like this?

Warnke: I firmly believe that we can continue to appropriate spaces, even for non-economic interests. The Mikropol is an example of this, even if it was not a classic line-up. For a while there were only “symbolic” occupations because the repression was so great. So it’s important to tell the story of this McDonald’s branch, now called L’après M.

taz: Why?

Warnke: This occupation worked because people saw this place as their place. It was the training school, the village square, the place for dates. Some change, it may no longer say “occupation” on them, but it is still an appropriation of space that significantly expands people’s lives.