At the end of December it appeared in the taz an interview with Juli Zeh. In it, the writer talked about her neighbors in Brandenburg. 54 percent in their village vote for AfD. She also said the firewall led to nothing. Katrin Göring-Eckardt, a long-time member of the Green Party, read the conversation and told us that she saw some things differently. She lives in a village in East Germany. On a Monday afternoon we meet her in her Bundestag office on Unter den Linden.
taz: Ms. Göring-Eckardt, what annoyed you about the wochentaz conversation with Juli Zeh?
Katrin Göring-Eckardt: What particularly annoyed me was that Juli Zeh so openly, perhaps only apparently, but in the end aligned herself with the AfD voters in her village. She describes their concerns, for example the case of a mother whose child was assigned a school place with a very long journey. Juli Zeh has so much understanding that it sounds as if people would inevitably have to vote for AfD for such reasons. But they don’t have to. Juli Zeh is a constitutional judge. She should stand up and say: I don’t think that’s good, but think again about what it means to vote for the AfD.
This text comes from the weekday. Our weekly newspaper from the left! Every week, wochentaz is about the world as it is – and as it could be. A left-wing weekly newspaper with a voice, attitude and the special taz view of the world. New every Saturday at the kiosk and of course by subscription.
taz: Juli Zeh says that in political discussions in the village she makes it clear that she sees things differently.
Göring-Eckardt: In the interview, she primarily defends this voting behavior. So far, I’ve also had the impression from her appearances on talk shows: it’s always the others who are the stupid ones who don’t understand these people who must be so angry. For me, taking people seriously also means discussing things and not just citing extenuating circumstances.
taz: You have been living in a village in East Germany for many years. How many people voted for the AfD in the federal election?
Göring-Eckardt: A little over 40 percent.
taz: And how do you deal with this in everyday village life?
Göring-Eckardt: It’s not written on anyone’s forehead who he or she will vote for. But of course, I meet AfD voters in everyday life. I even know that one craftsman is a member. Friends from the city think I have something wrong when they hear that I voluntarily bring an AfDler into my own house.
taz: Is there no other tradesman who could take on the repair?
Göring-Eckardt: No. But I also wouldn’t want to make which tradesman I hire dependent on my political views. The important thing is that he can do his job.
taz: The Greens are an enemy for many in the rural east. If the AfD craftsman comes, how will it work?
Göring-Eckardt: At least he’s coming. That’s good, he could also say, I don’t want to go there. First of all, it’s about the matter at hand, for example repairing the faucet. I then try to talk about what concerns everyday life: what’s going on in the town or why so many houses are falling into disrepair. If there’s a political issue that concerns him or that upsets him, I’ll say something about it too. For example, electromobility. There is an electric car in front of my door. Many people ask whether you can actually get from A to B and back again.
taz: Spoiler: You can get from A to B very easily.
Göring-Eckardt: Yes, sure. People talk about things like this, in the garden, in the shop, in everyday life. This is completely normal.
taz: How are people in your village who belong to a minority doing?
Göring-Eckardt: They get scared. Because they are queer, have a different attitude, because their cousin is black and wants to come to her birthday too. When I talk to people in Berlin, they sometimes tell me: The way I look, I won’t even go to Brandenburg. I totally understand that. Nobody thinks about them when you talk about the fact that you have to be understanding for people who feel left behind.
taz: There’s some truth to being left behind, isn’t there?
Göring-Eckardt: That’s correct. I also understand that people are angry. But that is no reason to vote for a party that is right-wing radical and pursues anti-human policies.
taz: The question is: How do you get people not to vote for AfD?
In an interview: Katrin Göring-Eckardt
The East German
Katrin Göring-Eckardt was born in Friedrichroda, Thuringia, in 1966. She studied theology in Leipzig. In 1989 she became involved in Democratic Awakening. She was a member of the citizens’ movement Democracy Now, then of Alliance 90/The Greens.
The politician
Göring-Eckardt has been a member of the Bundestag for the Greens since 1998. She was parliamentary group leader until 2021 and vice president of the Bundestag until 2025. She ran as her party’s top candidate in the 2013 and 2017 elections.
Göring-Eckardt: There is no one recipe. However, I do think that politics is thought of too much in terms of the city. The progressive part of society often assumes that the city is the norm and the country is the deviation that the city must adapt to. But that doesn’t fit with a society that wants to belong together. I’m probably not that far away from Juli Zeh. If half of the people live in rural areas, there are enough reasons to look at it the other way around.
taz: Please do that.
Göring-Eckardt: I talked to a woman who is doing a cool cultural project in the country. During the conversation I said to her: It’s stupid that the bus no longer runs in the evenings, then you can’t go to the theater in the city. The woman replied: What’s even more stupid is that people in the city can’t come out and see what we’re doing here. This change of perspective would be good for all of us. I learned that from this encounter.
taz: The Greens in particular are seen by many in the country as a big city party.
Göring-Eckardt: I would say that this applies to my party as well as to political Berlin as a whole, that we have this very urban perspective. We always talk about rural areas, and yet we usually end up saying that the bus should go there every hour.
taz: Shouldn’t he?
Göring-Eckardt: But. Public transport It’s really important, I’m a Green and 180 percent for it. Nevertheless, I say: you are not mobile in the village if you don’t have a car. Even if a bus runs once an hour until the evening. Anyone who thinks that it is possible without a car is transferring the city dweller’s view of the village.
taz: That was also the accusation in the Building Energy Act.
Göring-Eckardt: Rightly so. When I read the punctured paper on the heating law, I knew: That doesn’t reflect reality.
taz: You say heating law? This is the language of the Bild-Zeitung.
Göring-Eckardt: Sorry, but I want people to understand me. So when this law, whose name must not be mentioned, became known, my neighbor was really scared. The ministry didn’t think about how people who inherited a single-family home and didn’t earn a lot of money were supposed to manage it. This is quite often the case, especially in East Germany.
taz: There’s more to come. Liberal democracy is currently unable to guarantee security and prosperity as we are used to. Mistrust is growing, the digital media is concentrating it, and the right-wing populists are benefiting. What to do and with which tool?
Göring-Eckardt: Yes, there is great distrust and widespread contempt for elites. We too should do everything there social networks there, use it to counteract it. We must not overlook the fact that the power of algorithms can be abused. There needs to be more transparency and Regulation of platforms give. Above all, we must not stop talking to each other. We always need a firewall when it comes to political cooperation. But what there shouldn’t be is a firewall of conversation.
taz: Not a social firewall either?
Göring-Eckardt: In all the decades that I can see, it has always been the case in the village that people didn’t necessarily know what others thought politically. We still got along. If you said, I don’t talk to this or that, a lot of things wouldn’t work. Only if I stay in the conversation can I say that I don’t think it’s okay when lesbians, gays or foreigners are insulted. I am also convinced that people can be dissuaded from voting for the AfD in the long term, for example by conveying that, in case of doubt, their contempt can also affect them or their friends. But not if they say all the time: We don’t want anything to do with you.
taz: You say that there should be no political cooperation with the AfD. This is sometimes difficult to implement in municipalities.
Göring-Eckardt: The municipalities sometimes reach their limits. The same applies here: Nobody has to agree to an AfD application, even if it may seem sensible. But it is not the same as tearing down the firewall if you want to repair the playground and the AfD agrees to this. However, if the AfD wants to harass refugees, then the answer can only be clear contradiction.
taz: You are too for a ban on the AfD. That’s no longer talking to each other.
Göring-Eckardt: But. Clear.
taz: Your village people could feel disempowered if their party were banned.
Göring-Eckardt: Exactly, and I discuss this with the plumber as well as with my neighbor. Already. She asks me why I am in favor of the AfD ban. Then I say: This party is demonstrably unconstitutional in many of its divisions. This is what the Office for the Protection of the Constitution tells us. As a democrat, I recognize this institution. So we have to check whether this party is still compatible with our system or whether it needs to be banned. I can’t say that I don’t care that someone wants all people who look different to be remigrated.
taz: What does the neighbor say about that?
Göring-Eckardt: She says: Do you want to ban my opinion? No, I want to ban the party that wants to abolish the democracy we live in. We fought for democracy and freedom in ’89, and I will always do everything I can to protect the free, democratic basic order.
taz: Where does your willingness to listen end?
Göring-Eckardt: When people who don’t seem to belong are insulted or defamed. Refugees, people with dreadlocks, and lesbian women live in our village. If it goes against them, there’s an immediate shift in the shaft.
taz: Does it sometimes go against you?
Göring-Eckardt: My mailbox at the front of the garden fence was full of dog poop. I was just in Berlin. After the police secured the evidence, my neighbor cleaned the mailbox.
taz: Why that?
Göring-Eckardt: That corresponded to the mood in the village, so many people said: We may think what you’re doing politically is wrong, but it’s going too far. That’s not how we are here.