taz: Ms. Scheppat, can the German auto industry still be saved?
Birgit Scheppat: Basically, the German automotive industry has the ability to save itself. But she lacks the courage to implement future-proof technologies. So the rescue becomes difficult if it always focuses on the old things. She should actually look into the future. If she can’t do that, then she can’t be saved.
taz: What does the future of the industry look like?
Scheppat: Definitely emission-free – even if German manufacturers are trying to turn things around again and build combustion engines for longer. When it comes to passenger cars, the progress of electromobility cannot be stopped.
taz: How could the industry gain courage to get there?
Scheppat: In Germany there is a concentration in a few large automobile companies – Volkswagen, BMW and Mercedes-Benz. They’re like tankers, they always go straight and have an infinitely long braking distance. To steer them in a different direction is extremely difficult. The works councils, employees and management must realize that they are competing against corporations based in Asia – be it in China, Japan or Korea. Then they have to think very quickly about where they want to go with which technology, with which employees and at which locations, show a clear stance and say: We’re doing it now. This will only work if companies have the courage to change their internal structures.
taz: What is that about? failed so far?
Scheppat: The German automobile companies have no course. They don’t know where is north and where is south. They would have to ask themselves: How do they manage to produce emission-free cars? How do they manage to increase productivity in the face of competition from Asia? This means that, firstly, they have to automate production processes. Secondly, they have to look at where they still have an advantage compared to the international competition. Third, there are not enough professionals who are curious and hungry to get into new technologies. Engineering is a difficult subject – and federal and state politicians are currently cutting corners on engineering training. This is doing the economy a disservice. Without good training, the industry will not be sustainable.
taz: What else would politicians have to do to make the industry sustainable?
Scheppat: Well. The federal government is fickle and does what the industry tells it. This is difficult for companies and a catastrophe for Germany as a location. In politics, too, we need someone who has courage and who says that we want to meet our climate targets as best as possible and that we are taking this path to zero emissions, straight ahead. Global warming has easily exceeded 1.5 degrees anyway, and Germany will miss most of its climate targets – so we certainly shouldn’t go back to combustion engines.
taz: The Association of the Automotive Industry has repeatedly committed itself to the Paris climate goals, but also wants to achieve them with synthetic fuels and plug-in hybrids.
Scheppat: The efficiency of synthetic fuels is between five and ten percent compared to battery-electric drives. This is madness. The industry likes to demand what is convenient for it at the moment, but does not look at the long term. Porsche brought battery-electric vehicles to market, then realized they were so expensive that they weren’t well received in the market. Now Porsche wants to go back to combustion engines. Or VW: There are still sometimes problems with the software of electric cars. Then VW would now have to be very committed to the technology. But VW first put money into it, then realized that it wasn’t working out as it should – and then turned away. Technologies must be developed step by step, even at the risk of something going wrong.
taz: Nevertheless, the progress of electromobility on the Asian market has surprised local car manufacturers. Did the technology develop faster?
Scheppat: There were long processes there too. In 2015, Germany built the first power-to-gas plant in Mainz to store renewable energy. Japan is now a world leader in technology. The engineers there looked at the German system and developed it further for years. Germany has an arrogance that it has to get rid of very quickly – as if everything we started with would be world class forever. Unfortunately, our automobiles are no longer world class.
taz: That’s why the German manufacturers want to rely on the tried and tested – their combustion engines.
Scheppat: It’s like putting off your dentist appointment. But the toothache doesn’t go away. The change could work. It works in the Netherlands, it works in Norway. If German car manufacturers don’t bring battery-electric vehicles onto the market now, they will lack a bit of experience compared to the competition in the next few years.
taz: Norway has exempted e-car purchases up to around 42,600 euros from VAT and introduced additional taxes for new combustion engines. In the Netherlands there is a purchase bonus for new electric cars under 45,000 euros.
Scheppat: Of course, they have a smaller population than Germany, so change may be easier to bring about. But yes, it was clear there that certain incentives were needed.
taz: The federal government wants change now with a socially graded premium for the purchase and leasing of electric cars and hybrids. What do you think of it?
Scheppat: It would have to promote e-cars specifically made in Germany with a purchase bonus. The watering can-like subsidies for some vehicles, including Chinese ones, are of course very nice for car buyers – but they don’t help the German industry. It would have to demand from manufacturers a low-cost battery-electric vehicle that allows customers to buy into the technology – and then subsidize it. And it would have to tell the companies: Make sure that you make your fleets emission-free in a staggered manner, just as the EU has specified with the fleet limits.
taz: So far, the profit margins for electric cars for manufacturers have been lower than for combustion engines. How can they solve this in the long term?
Scheppat: By producing large series, developing or purchasing parts such as the battery more cheaply, and automating and digitalizing productivity. The EU should support the development of its own battery production, to become more independent of Asian technology. France and Germany built Airbus together – I would like to see a project of this quality for European battery technology.
taz: Automated productivity – that sounds like job cuts.
Scheppat: Car manufacturers like to threaten to cut jobs if politicians don’t do what they want. This is a bad habit that does not do justice to our industrial society. It’s true that an electric car only has half as many components as a combustion car, so fewer people are needed to build it. However, high-quality industrial jobs could be created in the further development of vehicles.
taz: If building an electric car is simpler than building a combustion engine – what happens to the suppliers whose parts are no longer needed?
Scheppat: Suppliers need to think about what they can contribute. Some do. A number of companies know that their skills in metals or plastics, for example, are helpful in building lighter cars. Suppliers may also ask themselves: How can the materials be recycled? How can composite structures in vehicles become more stable? There is still a lot of room for improvement when it comes to a car’s sensor technology. But of course it will be difficult for many suppliers; they will have to rethink things very quickly. And right now they are being left out in the cold by car manufacturers.
taz: What do you think of the idea of using the auto industry’s production facilities and personnel to build trams and buses for local public transport?
Scheppat: Improving and financing local public transport is definitely important to me. Mobility won’t get any better if we have a lot of cars on the road. Cars can be good for getting to a park-and-ride lot where you can transfer to local transport. And if there is an opportunity to build trams to keep people working and to use battery or hydrogen-electric drives and bring them forward, that makes sense – and a good way to continue to offer citizens high-quality industrial jobs.